Dear Media CEO on the future of podcasting

Michael Bosstick, Dear Media CEO, joined Yahoo Finance's Jen Rogers, Dan Roberts, and Rick Newman to discuss his outlook for the podcast sector and his plans for Dear Media this year.

Video Transcript

- Just try to get your head around what has been happening in the podcast space since the pandemic broke out. First, there were stories about, oh, no one's commuting, so nobody's listening to podcasts. Then recently, it's like everyone wants to get into podcasts more. We've got Joe Rogan experience getting some exclusive, $100 million deal at Spotify. Is this what the future is going to look like? Is it going to be big bucks?

We want to bring in Michael Bosstick. He is Dear Media's CEO. They have 40-plus podcasts, 150 million downloads, and a big social reach as well. So Michael, let's just start at the beginning of this pandemic and what you've seen in the podcast space. Because again, the stories we were doing the first couple weeks were, are you listening to podcasts? I haven't listened to a podcast recently. So what have you seen?

MICHAEL BOSSTICK: Yeah. So I think we definitely saw a little bit of a drop in the beginning with the loss of commuting. But then we've gradually seen it pick up over time. And it's more of a flat listening curve where a lot of the listeners that have been consuming podcasts were jumping in a day-of release. If you subscribe to a podcast and a new episode comes out, you jump in right away and listen to it on your commute. But now, what we've seen is people are taking a little bit more time throughout the week, listening on home devices, listening on mobile.

I think what's happened is the commute has really hurt radio more than podcasting. A lot of those listeners that were in traditional radio are now saying, OK, I'm at home. I have a little bit more time. I want to listen to more on-demand. And so I think you're actually going to see a lot of consumers start shifting into podcasting sooner than they would have without this pandemic.

- And what do you think the way people are going to make the most money in podcasting is? Is it a deal like-- and I know not everybody's Joe Rogan, of course. But still, we can aspire.

MICHAEL BOSSTICK: Sure.

- Is it these huge deals like that, these exclusive where you get locked up with a big influence or a big name? Or do you think it's going to be more what we're seeing with subscription, sort of niche but people are paying up to listen to that extra episode that you have?

MICHAEL BOSSTICK: Sure. This is why I really love this space and why our approach is a bit different. When we work with shows, we take a more holistic approach and say, hey, what is the overall brand going to look like, not just the subset of the podcast channel?

So definitely, there is going to be the Joe Rogans of the world, the beasts that have been doing this a long time that can move listeners to platforms and lock in exclusive deals. There's also going to be platforms that just really engage a community and say, hey, we're not going to go the ad model. We're going to do a more-- we're going to go behind a paywall.

And then there's going to be some other shows that you see that say, hey, we're actually not even interested in ad dollars. We're going to launch brands from this. We're going to use our podcasts as a content arm of our business. And it's going to incubate the launch of products, services, whatever.

So I think it's hard to pinpoint down where the most money is going to be made because there's so many different opportunities. That's like asking the question, how is a blogger or an influencer going to make the most money? It just depends which direction the creator wants to take their show. Which is why at Dear Media, we say, hey, in a perfect world, what does this look like to the creator three, four, five years down the line outside of just the ad dollar model?

DAN ROBERTS: Michael, Dan Roberts here. The podcast space felt like it was very, very crowded even before the pandemic. And now amid lockdown, maybe, I guess, on the thinking that people have more time listen to this stuff-- as Jen mentioned, everyone is jumping in. Spotify is making a big bet and has bought a few different podcast businesses. But also Amazon, also Apple-- we also know that Barstool Sports makes a lot of its revenue from podcasts. The Ringer, which is why it sold to Spotify-- isn't there a concern that it's getting overcrowded, or that soon enough, it's just going to be too crowded of a space?

To me, it kind of feels right now like email newsletters where every single person has a newsletter and they all want you to subscribe to your newsletter.

MICHAEL BOSSTICK: Yeah, I mean, this is an old saying. Content is king. And I think that's been said about every content medium. It's been said about blogs. It's been said about social creators. It's been said about basically every medium.

I think the best content rises to the top, and Dear Media is positioned to help position some of that. But I think we're just starting to scratch the surface of people taking this medium very seriously. I mean, we're just now starting to really see the growth of this space. I mean, how old the medium is-- it's been around for a very long time. To see the attention it's finally getting-- I think we're just starting to scratch the surface of people jumping in.

RICK NEWMAN: Michael, hi, Rick Newman here. Who is making money from podcasting other than Joe Rogan?

MICHAEL BOSSTICK: Sure. I mean, networks like Dear Media. There's a lot of creators that have been making money for a long time, maybe not at the scale as Joe Rogan who's been doing this for a very long time and who has really pioneered the space. But there's a lot of creators that are jumping in now, making six, seven figure deals yearly. There's people quitting their jobs.

I think people-- you referenced Barstool. You've seen what they've done. It's a big part of their revenue. It's obviously a huge part of Dear Media's revenue. And I think when you see big name talent start to jump into this space, you're going to see a lot of new dollars that haven't been in this space start to come in. And like I said, it's just getting warmed up.

- Wow, just getting warmed up. Michael Bosstick, Dear Media's CEO, great to get a chance to talk with you. And hopefully, we can continue the conversation as you guys keep making inroads in this space. Thanks a lot.

MICHAEL BOSSTICK: Thank you very much.