Defunding NYPD is a priority, but the question in NYC is how: Council Member

New York City Council Member for District 41, Alicka Ampry-Samuel, joins Yahoo Finance’s Kristin Myers to discuss calls to defund the police amid civil unrest.

Video Transcript

KRISTIN MYERS: Well the calls to defund the police have been loud in the last few months, as some police departments in the country have actually seen their budgets slashed. But here in New York, Black city council members are opposing the measure, which might come as a surprise to some. So to chat about why, we're joined now by Alicka Ampry-Samuel, New York City Council Member representing district 41, which is right here in Brooklyn. So councilwoman, I think most people believe that Black communities would embrace this initiative of defunding the police, especially given the overpolicing that we know happens in minority communities. You are not embracing this initiative. Why?

ALICKA AMPRY-SAMUEL: I'll first say by-- just to correct the record, I do embrace defunding NYPD. But my question is always, what does that look like, and what impact does it have on certain communities? Because every single community is totally different. And I say that because, you know, how do you tell a senior woman who lives alone in my district in a building that doesn't have a security guard or concierge, you know, that live in the community with a high crime rate-- how do you tell them there will be no police? You know, how do you-- what do you say to that particular woman?

And so in certain parts of my community, that's, you know, welcomed where, you know, families and individuals don't have to worry about certain levels of safety because of where they live. And-- but in others certain areas, in particular where my concentration of public housing is located, it's a different conversation there. And so for me, defund NYPD has always been the goal, has always been the priority. But the question in New York City is, how?

KRISTIN MYERS: So I'm actually glad you mentioned some of that. I decided to check out poverty and crime stats, at least for Kings County-- so that's Brooklyn. 20% of the people here in this county live in poverty. The biggest increases in murders inside the city are actually right here in Brooklyn. So to that end, if defunding the police-- unlikely to happen the NYPD. But if some sort of initiative like that were to be going forward, at least to the extent that we've seen in some other police departments, what do you think would happen to that crime rate, at least in Brooklyn or in some of the districts that-- or some of the areas, rather, that you represent?

ALICKA AMPRY-SAMUEL: So for me, I've been talking about defunding NYPD and funding more community-based organizations that work directly with public safety, like the crisis management system. And Cure Violence comes out of the crisis management. That's just one of the types of programs and conflict mediation.

And I'll just give you a quick example. During the budget negotiations, I was the one who questioned how much funding-- how much money was paid out in overtime for the gang violence unit and was told that it was close to $1 million. And I came back and said, well, if that was $1 million in Brooklyn North, how about we take that same $1 million and not have the gang violence unit operating and put that $1 million in our Cure Violence organization. What would crime look like then? And so I think the answer to a lot of gang violence and crime and, you know, increase in violence that we're seeing is really based on the fact that our organizations are not funded at the levels that they should be funded to stop what we're seeing.

KRISTIN MYERS: So to that point, councilwoman, the New York Police Department is-- actually has, at least when it comes to per resident here, some of the highest numbers per resident. Each resident pays the most in New York City for the police department-- the most, actually, I believe, in the country, compared to some other cities and municipalities. Wondering if some of those numbers, to your point, need to come down and create a blend here where we, perhaps, are taking some money out of that NYPD budget and instead funding initiatives that are going to tackle issues like poverty inside the city, like homelessness inside the city, like mental health inside the city, those initiatives instead of funneling it all into the criminal justice system?

ALICKA AMPRY-SAMUEL: Yeah, but that's a no brainer, right? We've been talking about this not just over the past four months. We've been talking about this for years. And you know, and as much as I fight city hall and have been fighting for, you know, years now getting more funding for our, like I said, community-based organizations and social workers in our schools, counselors in our schools to deal with trauma. And talk about schools, how about we get air conditioning in the schools to help children be able to learn and focus so that they are not leaving because the school is too dang-gone hot?

You know, there's so many things that we can do and better ways to allocate city dollars. And so it really flows to, for me, leadership. You know, if we had an executive administrator who cared enough to fund organizations and agencies the way they should and not be afraid of the NYPD, I think that we would be in a different place. And that just goes back to organizing.

We can talk about the strength in the unions within the NYPD everyone fearing, you know, the union bosses. I think that if we, you know, begin to really look at the strength that we have in our community and the power that we have, we'll be able to demand more funding to go towards where it should be in our community.

KRISTIN MYERS: So to the point of that fight that you've been taking to city hall repeatedly now, is that a fight becoming any easier in the last couple of weeks, last couple of months, as we're seeing this up-swell, this larger support for defunding the police? Are you at least getting any sort of movement there to better fund some of those programs?

ALICKA AMPRY-SAMUEL: I mean, you know, I wish I can say that it's getting easier, but clearly, it's not because we're not seeing the change. What we're seeing now is even more force and attention from the NYPD side to say, look at all of the increase in crime. This is why we need more police. And I even have colleagues in the city council who work within the same conference that I serve who also believe that there should be more police in my district. And so the fight is on so many levels against so many people, and now we have a mayor that's saying that there's a potential layoff of 22,000 people come August 1.

So I think the fight is getting more serious. It's more serious at this point, and we need more people to continue to protest and demand change and defunding but demanding more of where the funding should go. I think that's what's missing in the campaign, this hashtag, #DefundNYPD. There's not enough conversation around where that money should actually go and demanding where it goes.

KRISTIN MYERS: We're seeing, because of the coronavirus pandemic, one looming homeless crisis that reaches Great-Depression-era levels. We are seeing states and cities essentially have large deficits in their budgets. Do you worry that the squeeze economically that the virus is putting on cities might actually scuttle some of your attempts to divert funds to some of these programs that are so badly needed in the city?

ALICKA AMPRY-SAMUEL: What's really interesting is we see an increase in homelessness, right? But what I also see it increase in is hotels being opened at record rates and hotels that are not being utilized for tourists. There are no tourists come into New York City right now. I-- what we're seeing is hotels opening in my district alone just to be able to operate as a shelter. And they can do that because the city puts more money into operating shelters than they do really looking for permanent homes and permanent housing for homeless communities.

And so again, that goes back to how we allocate funding across the city and what we put our priorities in. And we prioritize more development and greedy developers wanting to make a profit from the city and people than we do actually protecting our, you know, everyday New Yorkers, including the homeless.

KRISTIN MYERS: All right, well, we will leave that there. Alicka Ampry-Samuel, New York City Council Member. Thanks so much for joining us today to break down, again, the defund the police to the reallocation of resources from police. Thanks for joining us.

ALICKA AMPRY-SAMUEL: Thank you.